Electroacoustic transducer

Abstract

The invention relates to an electro-acoustic transducer (1), in particular a flexural wave transducer, comprising at least one flexural-resistant acoustic membrane (2) and a structural acoustic transducer (3) which excites the acoustic membrane (2) to vibrate. In order to achieve improved sound conditions, it is proposed that the sound membrane (2) comprises a carrier material (4) coated with a synthetic resin, the sound-emitting surface (5) of which consists of at least two, in particular at least three, synthetic resin layers (6) which are bonded to one another without using an adhesive.

Description

Technical Field

[0001] The invention relates to an electroacoustic transducer, in particular a bending wave transducer, having at least one bending-resistant acoustic membrane and a structure-borne sound transducer which excites the acoustic membrane to vibrate. Background Art

[0002] Electroacoustic transducers, also called planar loudspeakers or exciters, use a structure-borne sound transducer equipped with a vibrating coil operating according to the principle of electrodynamics, which is mechanically fixed to an acoustic membrane, which can consist of any sound-emitting body. The second part of the structure-borne sound transducer is usually supported in a second part, which is also mechanically fixed to the acoustic membrane, in a vibrating manner transverse to the sound-emitting surface of the acoustic membrane. The structure-borne sound transducer converts the electrical signal into kinetic energy and transfers this kinetic energy to any vibrating surface, such as a bed, sofa, mirror, cabinet, storage, shelf or screen. In particular, very low frequencies that are difficult to achieve with conventional subwoofers can be achieved with structure-borne sound transducers.

[0003] The mechanical properties of the sound-generating surface of the acoustic membrane are primarily responsible for the usable sound generation. The acoustic membrane can only transmit sound or sound if it vibrates mechanically and has corresponding internal stresses, i.e., internal stresses that increase the bending stiffness (or bending stiffness). Therefore, the acoustic membrane must be at least so resistant to bending that it is suitable for sound generation.

[0004] For example, WO 9709842 A2, WO 9709853 A2 and WO 9709698 A1 disclose electroacoustic transducers for exciting a plate-like acoustic membrane or screen to vibrate in order to generate sound. DE 10 2007 003 165 A1 discloses a correction element for adjusting the vibration behavior of a vibration system consisting of an acoustic membrane and a structure-borne sound transducer.

[0005] Patent document DE102008059312 A1 discloses another electroacoustic transducer, in particular a bending wave transducer, which has at least one acoustic membrane and at least one exciter for generating transverse bending waves in the acoustic membrane, wherein the acoustic membrane is a rigid, roughly rectangular plate body, which is supported in the area of ​​two opposite edges, wherein at least one support member is designed to receive a damping component of the edge area in a fixed position.

[0006] According to the teaching of patent document WO 9937121 A1, an acoustic transducer is mounted on a panel element in such a way that the surface vibration associated therewith acts on the panel element and is distributed using its resonant mode. Patent application WO9952322 A1 by the same applicant shows a resonant multimode acoustic panel in which a transducer is mounted. The acoustic panel has a cavity that absorbs and modulates the acoustic radiation emitted by the panel surface. Patent document DE102004032223 A1 discloses an audiovisual device having a planar element designed to display image information, the planar element being controllably emitting light, the audiovisual device also having a planar bending-resistant element, i.e., an acoustic membrane, designed to output sound information, the acoustic membrane being able to be excited to produce lateral bending vibrations to emit sound, and according to the teaching of the patent document, the sound-emitting element is designed substantially coextensively with the element emitting light.

[0007] Patent document DE102015104478 A1 discloses a planar loudspeaker having at least two essentially flat acoustic membranes of different sizes, which are respectively accommodated in a frame on the edge side and are respectively excited by an electric transducer, i.e., a structure-borne sound transducer, in order to generate bending waves on the corresponding acoustic membrane, wherein the acoustic membranes are respectively composed of a double-sided coated, bending-resistant polystyrene plate, which is connected to its corresponding frame by an elastic edge connection in the manner of a conventional cone speaker.

[0008] Disadvantages of the known electroacoustic transducers are, inter alia, that the sound profile emitted by them is of only mediocre acoustic quality and the achievable frequency response in the audible range is far inferior to that of conventional HIFI loudspeakers. Summary of the invention

[0009] The object of the present invention is therefore to provide an electroacoustic transducer of the type mentioned at the outset which is distinguished by an improved sound reproduction and which is preferably independent of the geometry of the acoustic membrane, which does not necessarily have to be flat.

[0010] The invention achieves this object in that the acoustic membrane comprises a carrier material coated with synthetic resin, the sound-emitting surface of which is formed by at least two, in particular at least three, synthetic resin layers which are materially connected to one another without the use of adhesives.

[0011] Depending on the type of carrier material, an adhesion promoter can be arranged between the carrier material and the first synthetic resin layer. It is important that the acoustic membrane comprises a carrier material coated with a synthetic resin, the sound-emitting surface of which is composed of at least two, in particular at least three synthetic resin layers, which are materially connected to each other without the use of an adhesive, which means that no separate adhesion promoter is provided between these synthetic resin layers. The individual layers are preferably composed of the same synthetic resin. The synthetic resin layers are not simply bonded to each other, and the bonded layers do not form a material bond with each other, but are coated one after another in a corresponding time window, so that the layers are ultimately materially connected to each other. This means that the synthetic resin layers are held together by atomic or molecular forces without the use of a separate adhesion promoter or an external adhesive (Fremdstoffkleber) and can no longer be separated from each other without loss. For this purpose, the second layer and any subsequent layers must always be applied to the preceding layer before the resin of the preceding layer mixed with a curing agent has completely crosslinked, which in turn must have partially crosslinked at this point in time so that on the one hand the required material-bonded layer connection is formed and on the other hand the partially crosslinked layer is already sufficiently dimensionally stable so that no undesirable surface unevenness is formed when the next layer is applied. This results in a sound membrane which, compared with only a single layer, is so resistant to bending due to the mutual tensioning of the individual layers that it is particularly suitable for sound generation. In the production of two or more synthetic resin layers which are materially bonded to one another without the use of adhesives, a sound membrane is produced in which tension is generated between the layers, which acts like the tension of a string in a musical instrument. Outstanding sound generation properties have been measured when the sound-generating surface has a plurality of synthetic resin layers. Currently, tests have been conducted on up to ten layers. It is the work of experts to determine the meaningful number of sound membranes and structure-borne sound transducers. If a special appearance is desired, the synthetic resin layers which are materially bonded to one another can finally be coated with a conventional lacquer.

[0012] The synthetic resin of the synthetic resin layer is preferably based on a polymer system that can be crosslinked by polyaddition, preferably an epoxy system or a polyurethane system. In this context, "based on" means that the synthetic resin can also include additives, such as fillers, dyes and the like, in addition to usually having at least one curing agent and at least one polymer system with prepolymers.

[0013] As synthetic resin for the synthetic resin layer, preferably a two-component epoxy system can include an amine-based curing agent, and / or preferably a three-component polyurethane system can include a curing agent based on blocked isocyanates. Both epoxy resins and polyurethane resins have proven to be particularly suitable for the intended use and provide good results. Synthetic resins (thermosetting) have the appearance of liquid glass during and after processing.

[0014] In order to adjust the hardness, mechanical and optical properties, the synthetic resin of the synthetic resin layer can include at least one further additive, such as an inorganic filler, for example aluminum oxide. It has also been shown that the addition of inorganic fillers can in particular reduce the generally undesirable shrinkage of the cured synthetic resin layer without impairing the optical or acoustic properties of the acoustic membrane.

[0015] The carrier material can be almost any material of any geometry suitable for coating with a synthetic resin layer that is bonded in a material-to-material manner, and can in particular be a composite material in the form of a sandwich structure, a textile, a hollow body, a glass-fiber reinforced plastic body and / or a wooden body. So-called Dibond panels, i.e. rigid composite materials in the form of a sandwich structure, have proven to be particularly suitable as carrier materials. Dibond panels usually consist of two aluminum covering layers, between which a polyethylene core is embedded. The acoustic membrane or the electroacoustic transducer is ultimately, for example, a painting, a sculpture, a wall or ceiling panel or the like.

[0016] In a simple case, a commercially available structure-borne sound transducer can be connected to the acoustic membrane and rigidly connected thereto, for example by gluing. However, since this is not always possible, it may be advantageous to connect the structure-borne sound transducer to the acoustic membrane via a connecting element, which is fixed to the acoustic membrane or integrated in the acoustic membrane. The connecting element here forms an adapter to which the structure-borne sound transducer can be connected. The connecting element is geometrically designed such that it can be connected as well as possible to the acoustic membrane on the one hand and to the structure-borne sound transducer on the other hand, and that the sound waves generated by the structure-borne sound transducer can be introduced into the acoustic membrane with as little unintentional losses as possible.

[0017] In order to be able to introduce sound waves into the acoustic membrane even at particularly exposed locations where there is no space for installing a structure-borne sound transducer, the structure-borne sound transducer can be connected to the connecting element via a coupler, and the structure-borne sound transducer can be arranged at a distance of 2 to 800 mm relative to the acoustic membrane, which distance is bridged by the coupler. In a simple case, the coupler is a rod, one end of which acts on the connecting element and the other end acts on the structure-borne sound transducer. The coupler (rod) can in turn be connected to the structure-borne sound transducer via corresponding connecting elements. Therefore, suitable connecting elements (adapters) can be provided between the coupler and the carrier material and between the coupler and the structure-borne sound transducer, respectively, so as to ensure that the structure-borne sound is introduced cleanly from the structure-borne sound transducer into the acoustic membrane. It is also conceivable to connect the two connecting elements to each other directly, that is, without using a coupler connected in the middle, for example, by means of a threaded connection, a bayonet connection or the like.

[0018] In particular, but not exclusively, when a coupling is provided, it is expedient to suspend the structure-borne sound transducer in the housing of the electroacoustic transducer so that it can vibrate freely relative to the acoustic membrane. For this purpose, a spring suspension for the structure-borne sound transducer or a suspension in the manner of a microphone cross-joint or the like is expedient.

[0019] If the electroacoustic transducer comprises a carrier material in the form of a sandwich structure, which comprises two metal layers, in particular aluminum layers, between which an electrically insulating core is arranged, then the electrical lines leading from the connection point to the structure-borne sound transducer can be introduced into at least one of the two metal layers in the manner of a circuit board. The carrier material, and thus the metal layers themselves, thus form a circuit board via which the electrical signals are conducted from suitable connection points to the structure-borne sound transducer. For this purpose, current-carrying wires are introduced into the metal layers, for example, by removing material between the conductors. The transmission of music, speech or sound expertise to an amplifier, which is optionally arranged in the electroacoustic transducer, takes place via Bluetooth, W-LAN or a cable, which is connected to the connection point via suitable components.

[0020] In order to further improve the design and maintenance possibilities of the electrical contact between the structure-borne sound transducer and the circuit board or between the circuit board and the electric signal generator, it is recommended that the negative contact or positive contact of the connection point on the circuit board and / or the negative contact or positive contact of the contact point of the structure-borne sound transducer are respectively formed by adhesive electrodes electrically connected to the corresponding negative or positive wires. Due to these features, possible electrical welding connections can be omitted, which can no longer be released without loss. In addition, the advantage achieved is that the local arrangement of the corresponding negative or positive connection points on the circuit board can be freely selected to a large extent by means of adhesive electrodes, so that a high flexibility in the arrangement of those connection points can be achieved. The adhesive electrodes that can be pasted on the metal surface are designed in their structure as known, for example, for electrode pads in TENS or EMS treatment applications. For example, the electrode substrate can be composed of a silicone matrix or the like, in which fillers required for conductivity are embedded. For example, various carbon-based fillers, especially carbon black particles, graphite particles or carbon nanotube particles, or metal-based fillers or suitable inorganic fillers can be used as fillers. Of course, the adhesive electrode has a corresponding cable connector or the like.

[0021] In particular, in cases where the electroacoustic transducer is subject to strong climatic or thermal fluctuations, it may be necessary to place the structure-borne sound transducer in a gastight housing filled with an inert gas, such as helium. In this way, even if the structure-borne sound transducer develops various hairline cracks after arduous use, oxidation of the structure-borne sound transducer, in particular the vibrating coil and the iron core, is avoided, thereby increasing the life of the electroacoustic transducer.

[0022] In order to improve the bass performance, the structure-borne sound transducer can be arranged between the acoustic membrane and the bass reflex cover in order to form a bass reflector. For this purpose, the bass reflex cover is arranged in particular in the housing of the electroacoustic transducer and is mounted on the acoustic membrane with a free cover edge without contact in such a way that when sound is emitted, the free cover edge does not touch the acoustic membrane and a pressure chamber is formed between the acoustic membrane and the volume delimited by the cover. The bass reflex cover can be fixed to the structure-borne sound transducer by a holding device.

[0023] The method for manufacturing a sound membrane according to the present invention is characterized in that a first synthetic resin layer is first applied to the sound-generating surface of a molded carrier material, and then a second synthetic resin layer is applied to the first synthetic resin layer before the first synthetic resin layer is completely cured, so that the first and second synthetic resin layers are materially connected to each other without using an adhesive, and then, if necessary, a third synthetic resin layer or more synthetic resin layers are applied in the same way to the previously applied synthetic resin layer.

[0024] The above-described features and characteristics of the acoustic membrane and thus of the synthetic resin layer apply analogously.

[0025] According to one embodiment, a first synthetic resin layer is first applied to the shaped carrier material. As synthetic resin, a two-component epoxy system uses an amine-based hardener and / or preferably a three-component polyurethane system uses a hardener based on blocked isocyanate, such as Gobbetto's floor resin (e.g. DEGA POLIEPO GC 505EXTRA). The preferred two-component or three-component means that various additives, such as inorganic additives, may also be present. The resin is also diluted with high alcohol for processing. The carrier material is always vibrated with a vibrator during processing. For the first synthetic resin layer, 1.2 to 3.2 kg / m 2 , especially 2 to 2.4 kg / m 2 And particularly preferably 2.2 kg / m 2 The amount (kilograms of resin per square meter of carrier material).

[0026] Subsequently, before the first synthetic resin layer has completely cured, a second synthetic resin layer is applied to the first synthetic resin layer, so that the first synthetic resin layer and the second synthetic resin layer are materially connected to each other without the use of an adhesive, for which purpose the second or each additional synthetic resin layer is applied within a time window of 6.5 to 8 hours, in particular 7 to 7.5 hours, after the application of the first or preceding synthetic resin layer. The exact time depends in particular on the process temperature or the ambient temperature and the relative humidity. For the second synthetic resin layer and each additional synthetic resin layer, a relative humidity of 0.6 to 1.2 kg / m 2 , especially 0.8 to 1 kg / m 2 And particularly preferably 0.9 kg / m 2The amount (kilograms of resin per square meter of carrier material).

[0027] Preferably, a plurality of synthetic resin layers can be applied to the carrier material up to a total thickness of 3.5 mm.

[0028] The invention also relates to an acoustic membrane produced according to the method. BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

[0029] The technical solution of the present invention is exemplarily shown in the accompanying drawings.

[0030] Figure 1 A cross-sectional view of a detail of an electroacoustic transducer having a bending-resistant acoustic membrane and a structure-borne sound transducer is shown;

[0031] Figure 2 A cross-sectional view showing a design variation of an electroacoustic transducer;

[0032] Figure 3 A cross-sectional view showing a design variant in which a structure-borne sound transducer is housed in a gas-tight housing filled with an inert gas;

[0033] Figure 4 A cross-sectional view showing a design variant in which the structure-borne sound transducer is arranged between the acoustic membrane and the bass reflex housing;

[0034] Figure 5 Rear view showing a design variant in which the electrical lines leading to the structure-borne sound transducer are introduced into the metal layer of the carrier material;

[0035] Figure 6 Various views showing a number of design variants of an electroacoustic transducer;

[0036] Figure 7 showing a cross-sectional view of a corner region of a plate-shaped electroacoustic transducer; and

[0037] Figure 8 Show Figure 7 The corner area in the middle has side wings that curve backwards from the sound-emitting surface. DETAILED DESCRIPTION

[0038] The invention relates to an electroacoustic transducer 1 , in particular a bending wave transducer, having at least one bending-resistant acoustic membrane 2 and a structure-borne sound transducer 3 which excites the acoustic membrane 2 to vibrate.

[0039] Acoustic membrane 2 comprises a carrier material 4 coated with synthetic resin, whose sound-generating surface 5 is formed by at least two, in particular at least three synthetic resin layers 6 which form a synthetic resin coating of carrier material 4 and are materially connected to one another without the use of adhesives.

[0040] The synthetic resin of the synthetic resin layer 6 is based on an epoxy system with an amine curing agent or on a polyurethane system with a curing agent based on blocked isocyanates. More than three synthetic resin layers 6 can also be provided. The synthetic resin of the synthetic resin layer 6 includes at least one further additive, such as a filler and / or a nucleating agent.

[0041] The carrier material 4 can be a composite material in the form of a sandwich structure, which has two aluminum layers approximately 0.3 mm thick, between which a polyethylene core is embedded; the carrier material can also be a textile, a glass fiber reinforced plastic body or a wood body. Figure 6 The various views show various design variants of the electroacoustic transducer, namely a pair of trousers on the left, a painting or a wall panel at the upper right and a sculpture at the lower right, all of which form a carrier material which is coated with at least two synthetic resin layers 6 which are materially connected to one another without the use of an adhesive.

[0042] The structure-borne sound transducer 3 is connected to the acoustic membrane 2 via a connecting element 7 which is fixed to the acoustic membrane 2 or integrated into the acoustic membrane 2. Figure 3 and Figure 4 In an embodiment of the present invention, the structure-borne sound transducer 3 is directly fixed to the acoustic membrane 2, in particular, it is bonded to the acoustic membrane. Figure 1 and Figure 2 In the embodiment, the structure-borne sound transducer 3 is either directly installed in the milling groove on the back of the acoustic membrane (see Figure 1 ), or connected to the acoustic membrane 2 via a connecting element 7 integrated in the acoustic membrane 2 (see Figure 2 ). The connecting element 7 can in particular be cast into a free position in the acoustic membrane 2 in order to anchor it securely.

[0043] The structure-borne sound transducer 3 is connected to the connecting element 7 via a coupling 8, here a threaded rod, wherein the structure-borne sound transducer 3 can be arranged at a distance of 2 to 800 mm from the acoustic membrane. The structure-borne sound transducer 3 can be suspended in the housing 10 of the electroacoustic transducer via springs 9 so as to vibrate freely relative to the acoustic membrane 2. Figure 2 The coupler 8 is a rod, one end of which acts on the connecting element 7 facing the acoustic membrane and the other end acts on the structure-borne sound transducer 3 through another connecting element 7. The coupler 8 is in turn connected to the structure-borne sound transducer through a correspondingly adapted connecting element 7, so as to ensure that the structure-borne sound is introduced cleanly from the structure-borne sound transducer 3 to the acoustic membrane 2.

[0044] For the electroacoustic transducer 1, the carrier material 4 in the form of a sandwich structure may include two metal layers 11, in particular aluminum layers, between which an electrically insulating core 12 is arranged, wherein the electrical lines leading from the connection point 13 to the structure-borne sound transducer 3 are introduced into at least one of the two metal layers 11 in the manner of a circuit board (see Figure 5 ).

[0045] According to Figure 6 In another embodiment shown in the figure, the negative contact electrode and the positive contact electrode of the connection part (13) and the negative contact electrode and the positive contact electrode of the contact part (3a) of the structure-borne sound transducer (3) are respectively composed of adhesive electrodes (13a) electrically connected to the corresponding negative wire (11a) or positive wire (11b).

[0046] The structure-borne sound transducer 3 can be installed in a gas-tight housing 15 filled with an inert gas 14 (see Figure 3 ).

[0047] Furthermore, the structure-borne sound transducer 3 can be arranged between the acoustic membrane 2 and the bass reflex shell 17 to form a bass reflector 16, which is suspended in the housing 10 via a holder 18 or is suspended on the structure-borne sound transducer 3 via a corresponding holder, here a non-magnetic screw-nut combination. As is common in conventional loudspeakers, the housing can be provided with a sound-absorbing material to attenuate undesired sound reflections in the housing 10.

[0048] Figure 7 and Figure 8 The production of a flank of a panel, in particular a picture, a mirror or the like, is shown, which panel is shown in cross section in the edge region of a plate-shaped electroacoustic transducer and has a cut-out V-shaped groove 19 in order to be able to form a corner region with a flank bent back from the sound-generating surface. Therefore, the synthetic resin layer 6 also covers the flank of the finished panel, wherein the flank is bent around the metal layer 11 on the side of the sound-generating surface that is not completely cut off or the carrier material 4 that is not completely cut off like a film hinge.

Claims

1. An electroacoustic transducer (1), in particular a bending wave transducer, comprising at least one bending-resistant acoustic membrane (2) and a structure-borne sound transducer (3) for exciting the acoustic membrane (2) to vibrate, characterized in that: The acoustic membrane (2) comprises a carrier material (4) coated with synthetic resin, the sound-generating surface (5) of which is formed by at least two, in particular at least three, synthetic resin layers (6) which are connected to one another in a materially bonded manner without the use of adhesives.

2. The electroacoustic transducer according to claim 1, characterized in that: The synthetic resin of the synthetic resin layer ( 6 ) is based on a polymer system which can be crosslinked by polyaddition, preferably an epoxy system or a polyurethane system.

3. The electroacoustic transducer according to claim 2, characterized in that: Preferably the two-component epoxy system comprises an amine-based curing agent, and / or preferably the three-component polyurethane system comprises a blocked isocyanate-based curing agent.

4. The electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 3, characterized in that: The carrier material (4) is a composite material in the form of a sandwich structure, a textile, a hollow body, a glass-fiber-reinforced plastic body or a wooden body.

5. The electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 4, characterized in that: The structure-borne sound transducer (3) is connected to the acoustic membrane (2) via a connecting element (7), which is fixed to the acoustic membrane (2) or integrated into the acoustic membrane (2).

6. The electroacoustic transducer according to claim 5, characterized in that: The structure-borne sound transducer (3) is connected to the connecting element (7) via a coupler (8), and the structure-borne sound transducer (3) is arranged at a distance of 2 to 800 mm relative to the acoustic membrane (2).

7. The electroacoustic transducer according to claim 5 or 6, characterized in that: The structure-borne sound transducer (3) is suspended in a housing (10) of the electroacoustic transducer (1) in a manner that it can vibrate freely relative to the acoustic membrane (2).

8. An electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 7, comprising a carrier material (4) in the form of a sandwich structure, comprising two metal layers (11), in particular aluminum layers, between which an electrically insulating core (12) is arranged, characterized in that The electrical lines leading from the connection point (13) to the structure-borne sound transducer (3) are introduced into at least one of the two metal layers (11) in the manner of a printed circuit board.

9. The electroacoustic transducer according to claim 8, characterized in that: The negative contact or positive contact of the connection part (13) and / or the negative contact or positive contact of the contact part (3a) of the structure-borne sound transducer (3) are respectively formed by adhesive electrodes (13a) electrically connected to corresponding negative wires (11a) or positive wires (11b).

10. The electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 9, characterized in that: The structure-borne sound transducer (3) is housed in a gas-tight housing (15) filled with an inert gas (14).

11. The electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 10, characterized in that: The structure-borne sound transducer (3) is arranged between the acoustic membrane (2) and the bass reflex enclosure (17) in order to form a bass reflector (16).

12. A method for manufacturing an acoustic membrane for an electroacoustic transducer according to any one of claims 1 to 11, characterized in that: First, a first synthetic resin layer is applied to the sound-generating surface of the molded carrier material, and then a second synthetic resin layer is applied to the first synthetic resin layer before the first synthetic resin layer is completely cured, so that the first and second synthetic resin layers are materially connected to each other without using an adhesive, and then, if necessary, a third synthetic resin layer or more synthetic resin layers are applied in the same way to the previously applied synthetic resin layer.

13. The method according to claim 12, characterized in that For the first synthetic resin layer, use 1.2 to 3.2 kg / m 2 , especially 2 to 2.4 kg / m 2 And particularly preferably 2.2 kg / m 2 and for the second synthetic resin layer and each additional synthetic resin layer, respectively, using 0.6 to 1.2 kg / m 2 , especially 0.8 to 1 kg / m 2 And particularly preferably 0.9 kg / m 2 The amount of the synthetic resin layer is preferably determined by vibrating the carrier material using a vibrator during processing of the synthetic resin layer.

14. The method according to claim 12 or 13, characterized in that Several synthetic resin layers were applied to the carrier material to a total thickness of 3.5 mm.

15. An acoustic membrane obtainable by the method according to claim 11 or 12.

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